Ear Piercing and Circumcision
Strong play with this topic, I know. I’m not trying to lose readers, but it is my blog, and I gotta keep it real. When I’m passionate, being politically correct or diplomatic goes out the window! Plus, I haven’t seen any posts on circumcision in a very long while and thought it’d be fun? to shake things up. Circumcision, in particular, is a highly debated, controversial issue. I happen to sit on one side of the argument, but I know my view isn’t any more “right” than anyone else’s, it’s just more “right” for my family. And just because I’m not likely to change my opinion, I’m still interested to hear others and open it up for intelligent discussion. Also, the views I express do not apply to religiously-based decisions.
So, ear piercing and circumcision…
What do they have in common?? Both are done to babies for purely aesthetic reasons - parents like the way they look. Both cause unnecessary pain and trauma to infants. Both are risks for infection. Neither is medically beneficial.
Don’t get me wrong, pierced ears on a baby girl is adorable, once you get past thinking about the screaming and tears she was put through to look like that. It’s one thing when a 6 year old demands earrings and you explain that it hurts, but she wants them anyway and you decide to give her the freedom to have her ears pierced. But it sort of makes me cringe to see a helpless 6 month old, who hasn’t a CLUE why someone is sticking a needle through her earlobe. I know the counter argument all too well: “might as well do it while she’s an infant, she’ll never remember it anyway!” In my mind, it’s roughly the equivalent to the medical philosophy from about 30 years ago when doctors believed babies couldn’t yet feel pain, so there’s no need for anesthesia during surgery on an infant! You’d probably be horrified (or maybe you wouldn’t, but I sure as hell am) to know that the VAST majority of circumcisions done on newborns are without any topical anesthetic. We just give them a passifier dipped in sugar water before we guillotine their foreskin.
And my rebuttal to the argument mentioned above…we a-parents, especially, should realize that every painful experience, no matter how young, is ingrained into our very beings. As an a-parent, my main focus is establishing trust, security, bonding, attachment, and I truly believe, on some level, subjecting our babies to pain has an affect on their degree of mistrust. In us as their protectors, and in the world more generally. Perhaps everyone manifests early childhood trauma differently, but just because we cannot recall the specifics of an event does not mean it has no impact on us. As the new mommy to a baby who has undoubtedly experienced pain, loss, trauma, physical as well as emotional, I want to do everything in my power to keep my baby safe, secure, and pain free, rather than inflicting additional trauma so that his penis looks more socially acceptable. Maybe that’s just me. Also, circumcision for adopted babies means doing it at an older age…so add the very serious and unnecessary risks associated with general anesthesia, as well as a higher incidence of other complications from circumcision beyond the neonatal period to the list of negatives.
I could go on about the brutality of circumcision, and the interesting social phenomenon that has led to its continued practice. Instead, I will just ask you why, if it is not medically indicated(realizing historically we thought it was), would we CHOOSE to cut off the part of the male sex organ that has the most nerve endings so that it may be less sensitive and pleasurable, but look “nicer,” or my favorite, “like his daddy’s?” Wouldn’t daddy rather his son have his “member” intact? How did we become a society that removes functional body parts for aesthetic purposes? Doesn’t anyone else find that odd? Maybe you’d add the argument that your transracially adopted son is already different enough, this is just a small thing to give him a physical similarity to his dad. To that I’d say you’re actually doing 1 more artificial thing to make him more distant and different from other members of his race, since circumcision is largely a Caucasian thing, and just because he is missing his foreskin, like his dad, he isn’t going to feel more white. Just less Asian, African, or Latino.
That said, the freaking American Academy of Pediatrics and American Academy of Family Physicians have gone back and forth on this topic and put out statements, revisions, amendments, etc. so often that it’s hard to follow what the current medical literature supports. There’s soft evidence supporting either side of the argument, and the reason for that is the studies that have been done are total crap. Not quality enough to draw any conclusions, but so far, there is insufficient data for either body (AAP or AAFP) to claim there is a therapeutic reason to circumcise. This is a hugely confusing topic though because doctors themselves have different stances on it, so patients may get completely conflicting advice if they ask around. I like to think doctors have higher standards than to factor in the fact that its a quick, easy, decently reimbursing procedure to perform, but I know that many don’t think of it any further than that. They don’t have strong feelings or give a damn 1 way or the other, so they go along with it and get paid afterwards. The doc who taught me the procedure had that attitude, and it really bothered me. After we were done and the poor newborn was screaming, the nurse dabbing the blood, and the dad proudly watching (WTF? I’m sorry, but there is something wrong with a man who wants to watch his son go through that), I asked the doc “do you have a hard time doing this procedure?” He responded “nah. I’m mean, at first I did. It is pretty barbaric when you think about it, but if that’s what they want, I’ll do it, get paid, and not think about it.” I just don’t know that I can do that.
Also, as doctors we take an oath that obliges us to “first do no harm.” Neonatal circumcision is considered a non-therapeutic procedure and is definitely not without risks. A study recently showed the complication rates are actually 5 times what the current fact sheets report. The risks of bleeding, infection, or a botched circumcision with retained foreskin seem to me like the possibility of doing harm is significant. I have literally cut and pasted (sue me, I’m lazy) the stuff in quotes below from a Letter to the Editor of American Family Physician in response to its fact sheet for patients on circumcision. Here are the most frequently claimed medical reasons people use to support circumcision, followed by the rebuttal from the aforementioned letter to the editor are:
1) Circumcision decreases the chances of contracting STD’s - “Recent studies have demonstrated that circumcised men are at increased risk of contracting gonorrhea, syphilis and genital warts.[5,6] Men are at equal risk for developing human papillomavirus lesions and herpesvirus infections regardless of circumcision status.[3,7] At least four studies have shown human immunodeficiency virus infection to occur more commonly in circumcised men.[8]“
2) Incidence of penile cancer is higher amongst uncircumcised males - “The number of circumcised men developing penile cancer has been increasing. Of 110 cases of penile cancer, 41 (37 percent) were circumcised, with 22 (20 percent) havi
ng been circumcised in the newborn period.[3] Genital warts and smoking were the strongest predictors of penile cancer. Data from Denmark indicate that the incidence of penile cancer is lower in Denmark than in the United States. Approximately 1.6 percent of Danish men are circumcised. The incidence of penile cancer has been declining for the past 50 years in Denmark.[4]“
3) The risk of acquiring HIV is less in circumcised males - “If linear regression analysis is applied to the relationship between circumcision rates and the prevalence of acquired immunodeficency syndrome in industrialized countries (using 1994 World Health Organization data) and weighted for population, a strongly positive correlation between circumcision and the prevalence of AIDS is found. While this does not prove that circumcision is a risk factor for AIDS, it is clear that the circumcision experiment in the United States did not prevent the spread of the infection.”
I also found this portion of the letter to be very interesting:
It is now believed that neonates perceive stimuli to be more painful than older infants. The impact of a painful experience may have long-term ramifications. A recent study demonstrated that boys circumcised in the neonatal period cried longer and harder after their first set of immunizations.[9]
Finally, the American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Bioethics recently cast doubt on whether a physician can ethically perform neonatal circumcisions.[10] Since a newborn is not competent, neither informed consent nor patient assent can be obtained. Likewise, parental permission is only acceptable in situations where medical intervention has a clear and immediate necessity, such as disease, trauma, or deformity. Routine circumcision does not satisfy these requirements. The committee suggests that in nonessential treatments, which could be deferred without substantial risk, the physician and family wait until the child’s consent can be obtained. Without proper consent, the delineation between performance of neonatal circumcision and assault and battery becomes indistinct.[11]
Ok, I apologize for the soapbox. I know this was a very judgmental post, and probably offended lots of people. As always, I love a good discussion and am TOTALLY in support of rebuttals and challenging comments, as long as we can stay civil. I do not think less of anyone who circumcises or pierces their kids’ ears, we just have a difference in opinion. And, it makes for a good debate / discussion topic! So, if you feel comfortable sharing, what are your views and would you circumcise your child? I guess I just brought the ear piercing in so the AP’s or PAP’s of little girls wouldn’t feel left out. Plus, it bears similarities to circumcision without all the confounding medical reasons to support it.
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48 comments
Love your blog Laurie! I personally will sleep a little better tonight knowing that there are Caucasian American doctors out there who do not support the practice of circumcision. I do hope that, in your own practice, if you are requested to perform that procedure, you attempt to educate your patients before you refer them to another doctor.
I have absolutely NO idea how such a barbaric practice has become so prolific in our society. I realize that this is a hotly contested topic and that I have the less popular point of view. However, after much research, I was able to finally convince my husband that the trauma of such a procedure on our adopted boys is unnecessary and would be incredibly cruel. I also argued that if the boys really want to be circumcised, that if they feel “weird” with a penis that “looks different” than their American peers, that is their decision to make when they are old enough to know what it means. Also included in the research I passed along to hubby supporting my position was all that he’s missing by not having his foreskin but I tried not to point that out too much.
Thank you for talking about this. As an AP of a girl first the subject just never crossed my mind. Now that we have a little boy (who is uncircumcised) it’s given me reason to think. We have not 100% decided what to do yet, but I am leaning more toward leaving things as they are. I hate the idea of doing something (that isn’t needed) that will cause my baby pain. I guess because I already know him and he has a personality and I know it will be more painful for him now I hesitate to have it done (my Mom is really pushing for circumcision). I kind of feel like if it really means that much to him then he can always have it done (I know it would be even more painful as an adult) when he is old enough to make the decision. If it’s that important to him, then the pain will be a temporary thing (but I kind of want that to be his decision).
Anyway, thank you for talking about this subject because I don’t see it come up often (but most of my friends have Chinese girls, so that could be why…lol).
Hi Laurie!
We did choose to circumsise our adopted son. It really wasn’t even something that we did not consider doing. Because it wasn’t cared for in the orphanage properly, I could not clean it properly. When we met with the pediatric urologist he suggested that we do it sooner than later due to the fact that we had already had problems with infections. He was put under anesthesia and the whole surgery took about 20 minutes. It took about 2 weeks of doctoring him at every changing before it was better. It was not fun, but it was something that I felt was necessary. As far as circumcision goes, I do feel that the pendulum is swinging back to non-circumcision. Many of my friends chose not to circimsise their boys, and some chose to circumsise them during toddlerhood so that they could be put under anesthesia.
Hmmmmm….
Very interesting topic…..
We have one of each- one son circ one son uncirc, we wish we would have know when Sam was in the hospital right after being born and they asked us when we wanted him to be circumcised and we just assumed that this was standard, normal procedure…..It’s not.
Our pediatrican discouraged us from circumcising Khai and I am so glad. He has been through so much with hospitals and docs already, that I don’t want to willingly put him through anything else…..
Couldn’t agree more Laurie. Thanks for the post.
Laurie,
Havn’t thought too much about the ear piercing thing, but our son is intact. I know many OB nurses who refuse to participate in circs, which I think says a lot.
I have had a circ. post in my head for months and havn’t taken the time to hash it out…maybe now is a good time!
I try very hard not to be judgemental about parenting choices, I know that most parents do the best they can for their kids with the info. they have, and love them and want what they feel is best. But this is a tough one for me.
Absolutely! I will not circumcise Parker or any of my sons, no more than I would chop off part of my daughter’s vagina. Not to mention that circumcision cannot really be undone (it can cosmetically be reversed to some degree, but the nerves never grow back), so if my son regretted what I had done to him some day, he couldn’t truly reverse it. And, if he wants to be circumcised, he can go at any age and have the procedure done…I know of a few men who have had circumcisions at ages over 30. As for the arguments of “looking like dad”, etc…they honestly make me laugh (how many guys do you know that compare their penises with each other? - never done that with any of my friends or family). And, the locker room argument is silly, too…only about 60-70% of US men are circumcised (and that number is falling - it was 55% of babies in 2003), so your son will see plenty of uncircumcised guys in the locker room. And, as you point out, if people actually read these studies on circumcision being healthier, and researched a little, instead of just listening to the 3 sentence news story, they probably would change their minds. Sorry for the rant, this is a topic that interests me a lot because I’ve had family members ask about Parker and if I plan to circumcise him, etc, etc…I also got plenty of flack when I posted my opinion on the subject to APV back in February. Ok, sorry to ramble on so long!!!
I agree for the most part with ear piercing (though, thankfully it’s not permanent if you don’t want it to be), I would wait until my child showed an interest. Then explain what happens and wait until they feel they are ready for it. If that’s at age 4 fine, if it’s not until age 18, fine. If I recall, my sister got her ears pierced at around age 3.
Great Post! I know this is a very controversial topic so thanks for tackling it with openess and honesty. I love people who are open to other’s view- it helps us grow. I thought I’d chime in with a different perspective . I hope I dont affend anyone, just want to share a different way to look at it. Like you, I believe it is babaric and a practice in America I am not proud of. However, we have decided to have our son circumcised. The decision was not based on any STD reasons on “cleanliness” issues but rather simply, we want him to feel American as possible. Sounds simple minded and silly but,like it or not, it IS part of our culture at this time. I would love to stand up against it but it is not about me. I feel strongly about it, he may not and in the end I can not choose battles I want him to fight or issues I want him to tackle. There will be many ways we can and will embrace his Vietnamese heritage along the way. Growing up is difficult enough, add in you look different than everyone else in your school(at least most). This issue will not matter in elementary school, but those teenage or dating years it will. This will be one less way he will be “different” than his peers. I know, there is nothing wrong with different, but watching my 3 other children navigate through life, I realize how important it is they feel connected to their peers and community first, heritage next. I would definitely not consider it if I believed it has long term emotional effects.
Thanks for opening up this topic for debate!
I always ask Matt if he’s mad knowing that his most sensitive part of his sex organ is gone — and does he wonder if sex would be even MORE pleasurable had he not been surgically (excuse the expression) raped. When we have our son next week (hopefully!) he will not be getting circumcised. There is no good medical evidence to support it and it is barbaric and cruel. I wish more people would take a look at this seriously. Maybe people should watch while their kids have it done so they can see how horrible it is? Also, a lot of people defend it by saying that the infant only cries for amoment or not at all — duh! When a baby is very, very traumatized, they do not cry — they become very silent. And the excuse that he needs to look like Daddy or the other boys? Please, are men really standing around comparing their shlongs? Are women in the locker-room comparing Brazilian bikini waxes? That excuse is just and excuse for people to feel ok with the norm.
Thank you for bringing in the supportive facts. I didn’t think about circumcision while we were going through the adoption process. I don’t have brothers. I just “thought” most people chose to have it done, and since we had less than 24 hours notice that our son was born and would be discharged to use from the hospital and placed w/ us the next day, I have to say it wasn’t the first thing I thought to research over night….I wish we’d thought about while we were waiting to adopt and did our research then.
I would also be interested in hearing your views (if you feel like sparking another discussion of a hotly debated topic!) of vaccinating children….
Remember when I asked you via email about circs? This is what I was waiting for, girl! After reading all of the studies, yes I think I actually Medline searched them, I’ve come to the same conclusions that you discussed in your post. We will be leaving Cooper intact. Thank goodness my husband doesn’t have that “but he won’t look like me” attitude!
However, I do have two concerns regarding uncirced penises. One, will the future doctors and nurses involved in Cooper’s care know how to examine and treat his intact member? Two, what about adult males? Do they tend to develop problems later in life with their foreskin?
Oh, I forgot to mention how disturbing I find it when babies have their ears pierced. I had to wait until I was 9, and could take care of the piercings myself. I figured if I ever have a girl, that is what I’ll do as a parent. Make her wait until she can care for them herself.
Thanks for the post. One of my best friends growing up is from Vietnam, she came to the US at age 7 with her mother and five other siblings. When we told her about our desire to adopt from Vietnam and that we were starting the process, circ. was one of the first things she brought up when I told her I wanted a boy. While it surprised me, she explained about their culture and why and told me her son was not circ. - that was a conversation that I was unprepared to have with my husband as well as had never considered prior. After listening to her argument, we have decided that unless something strange dictates it our son will stay uncirc., it is part of his culture, and apparently more important than I relaized because my friend thought to bring it up almost immediatly.
I’m so glad to see you posted on this! I had given the topic some thought, but have felt extremely unprepared to make a decison on it. I was feeling inclined to not have it done - now I’m sure that’s what I’ll do. If there were solid medical reasons for doing it, I’d strongly consider it, but it sure seems like it’s done more just because it’s been the norm than for any other reason, and that’s not enough for me. I have to wonder how much of an issue this really is among guys - do they really pay that much attention to each other in that respect? Maybe they do - I really don’t know. But I am inclined to think that since I am now 38 and the only thought I’ve given it in my life is in relation to adopting a baby boy, it really isn’t as big a deal (the is-he-or-isn’t-he) as some may believe. I have to admit I feel relieved today having read your post, that I will put the topic to bed now.
I have to admit, I’m not a fan of pierced ears on baby girls.
I agree with a previous commenter, I’d be really interested to see you tackle the vaccination topic. I haven’t dived into research on that one yet, but I’m interested in becoming more educated and it seems awfully overwhelming…
Fantastic post!
I brought the conversation up with J last week–great timing Laurie! He was emphatic that if we do get a boy, he WILL be circumcised. I had not expected such an emotional response…but then I also tend to forget that my husband is 1/2 Jewish and circumcision is part of their religion. And, since J is also a physician–he has performed anesthesia for many of the procedures…he doesn’t seem to feel that it is cruel to perform the operation.
I am pretty much on the fence. I had a boyfriend that was terribly ashamed that his parents chose not to have it done when he was a baby. I could understand his fear of being different or rejected….but it wasn’t something that I thought about for my son. I have no idea whether or not our future child will be angry with us for leaving his foreskin intact or altering his body in a way that is not the norm for the VN culture.
I do agree that these little ones have been through a lot. I was against having it done, but I will respect J’s feelings and likely go ahead with the procedure.
BTW–I live on the border where it is very common to pierce an infant girl’s ears. The rationale down here is that they don’t mess with their ears and there is less infection.
Hmmmm…I had mine done at 6 when my mother finally gave permission and they stayed infected because I was always touching them.
not sure on that one! Perhaps we will make sure that they are older and can care for their ears!
We didn’t have Nate circumcised. I’m grateful that his pediatrician actually did have an opinion on this, and she happens to be the mother of sons as well who I’m assuming aren’t circumcised either. In fact, I don’t think I’d worry much about boys looking like other boys growing up because more and more boys are uncircumcised these days.
At any rate, Nate’s ped. said that circumcision wasn’t medically necessary for him and while she left the decision ultimately up to us, we didn’t want to put him through it, under general anesthesia over 1 year old. I just couldn’t see doing an unnecessary medical procedure to our guy. I feel much the way that you do and I’m glad that you so clearly elaborated on the reasons NOT to circumcise boys unless it’s really and truly medically necessary.
Thanks so much for a great post.
Awesome comments so far, thanks for making this a great discussion everybody! One thing I’d like to add…this maybe TMI if my brothers are reading - sorry guys if you are and I’m pretty much announcing to anyone interested in reading that you are uncirced! Anyway, my mom was always VERY anti-circ and I guess that got engrained at an early age, even before I understood the medical fluff behind circ. But my point is, my brothers are VERY confident young men who have had very healthy relationships with their girlfriends. I don’t think it was ever an issue for them. I recently asked one of my brothers if he’d circ his sons, if he has any in the future, and he said nope. Thought that said a lot about his own experience. Keep the comments coming - you’ve all given me lots to think about.
Just had to add re: the argument about helping them to fit into American culture…I could be wrong here, and maybe Laurie stated in the OP (don’t have time to look) but I believe the current circ rate is about 50%–so boys who are uncirced, will certainly not be in the minority.
Hmmmm. I have never had to give much thought to circumcision since we have two girls, but I am pretty sure if we ever had a son I would not have him circumcised. The way I see it is that it’s the way nature makes ‘em, so why mess with it? To me it’s so odd to even think about doing something like that for aesthetical reasons…I mean it’s not like it’s out there for the whole world to see it. And there are obviously not any clear cut, undisputed medical reasons. Leave the pee pee’s alone, I say.
As for earrings… Babies with earrings are very cute. I see the appeal and we almost pierced our oldest daughter’s ears when she was a baby, but I just couldn’t do it. I couldn’t bring my unsuspecting, trusting little baby girl to someone for them to shove sharp objects through her tiny, dainty ears. It seemed so wrong. She finally got them pierced last month, at 6 years old. It was completely her decision and she knew going in that it was going to hurt. And when I stood there and watched them poke those earrings through her still tiny, dainty ears I could not imagine putting her through this if it was not her decision to do so. It’s sort of a barbaric practice. But she does look so cute with those sparkly ears.
There’s my .02. Thanks for the post…I love reading everyone’s opinions.
Thanks for this thought provoking post! My husband and are just starting the adoption process and interestingly enough, this topic just came up a couple of days before I read your post. I was opposed to the idea of circumcising our son, mostly because I don’t see any good reason to knowingly inflict additional trauma on a child who has already experienced so much of that in their short life. I also had questions about how it might affect the trust building and bonding between us during those first crucial months. On the other hand, my husband was strongly in favor of the procedure, citing the supposed medical benefits and religious reasons. Neither of us had any evidence to back up our positions. After going around and around with the issue for a couple of days, your post finally spurred us to do some research of our own, and as of sometime very early this morning (maybe he was just tired enough that he gave in=) my husband and I have decided that we are not going to circumcise our son. We will let that be a decision for our son to make in the future. Much thanks!
Thank you for this topic! I always know that we can count on you to bring things forward that we should think about. M and I are probably adopting a little boy, so this is a discussion we’ve had several times, but have never come to a conclusion. Now we have some more information to go on. And, yes, please do discuss vaccinations if you would.
Good point to link the ear piercing and circumcision together. It would be interesting to know what the history of circ. is here in America (why did it become so prevalent?)
Since we are “expecting” a little girl through adoption I don’t have to think too deeply about circ yet. But we will most definitely not be getting her ears pierced as an infant. Oww!
I love this topic, I am working on a mother/baby floor, and i am shocked at how many parents make an uneducated decision. The Dr. asks and they say sure with out questioning the procedure. There are so many myths that are passed on from the previous generation, and i think that has a lot to do with the decisions that the new parents make. I have seen the procedure many times, and many of the Dr.’s do not give the child meds for pain, they just strap them down and get to business. I am not saying all Dr’s so please don’t get mad, this is most that i have seen. We in the states think that female circumcision is barbaric but we do it to our boys. I don’t get it. I love your blog, thanks for all the wonderful topics.
Sorry, i also wanted to add that circumcision was originaly started by a Dr. that thought it would stop masterbation, it was done with no anasthetic because he believed that the baby would remember the pain and never want to touch himself.
Hello! My husband & I have been going back and fourth on this. And I really must say I think we are going to keep him the way god made him. Our Pediatrician suggested to not get it but told us where we could get information and that it was our deciision. Thanks for your blog. I plan to have my husband read it!
My boys aren’t circumcised. For many of the same reasons as you have put down here. If they were meant to be without them, they wouldn’t have them in the first place.
We will have six boys once our new son arrives from VN, so I guess I should add something here
Three are circ. and three not. Our three older boys are circ and are 24, 21 and 17. They ALL think I am making a mistake for not circ. the three younger boys (ages 9, 5, 5)–from a locker room perspective esp. They all play lots of sports so they know locker rooms 
Even tho we live in Oregon, a state that has one of the larger populations of uncircumcised boys, my sons say that most of the boys who are not circ. choose to not take showers in the locker rooms.
Also, I do have to say that it is more “work” to have a child who is not circ. By that, I just mean, it is one more part of the body to keep clean, remind my sons to take care of, etc.
Having said all of that, would I change anything? I probably would have circ. my son who arrived through birth (now age 5) but I wouldn’t have my sons who are adopted (at ages 9 months and 5 years) go through general anesthesia and the trauma of it all when they were older and our main concern was helping them to trust and attach. Esp. the one who will arrive at 5, I mean, is there really anyone who would at that age??? (With the exception of medical necessity of course.)
My son is 15 months old and will hopefully be coming home from Vietnam in August. I’ve read a lot of material on both sides of the argument and where I come down on it is — its ritual mutilation and completely unnecessary. At his age, I would NEVER have such a traumatic surgery done, but I wouldn’t have it done to a newborn either.
I’ve been shocked at the fact that so many people ask me about it (it never occured to me to ask others if their child was circumcised) and how strongly people feel. My brother has been nagging me to death. I’m not proud of this, but after the 4th phone call, I heard myself yelling “Leave my son’s penis alone!” LOL! In his last attempt to convince me he said ‘No woman will ever sleep with him!” I couldn’t believe it! I had to advise him that my last boyfriend was not circumcised and he was so freaked out by any mention of my sex life that it ended the discussion!
Awesome post and very enlightening - U GO GIRL!!
Shari : )
Sorry about all those comments that were awaiting moderation - I forgot to check, but hopefully they’ve all been approved now. About the locker room thing…my husband and I grew up playing very competitve sports and I asked him about the locker room argument last night. From his perspective, he said there were always the handful of guys who loved walking around naked, totally unnecessarily. Those are usually the guys that go through puberty early and wanna show it off in high school, but for the most part, he can’t remember a time when he’d seen his friends’ naked or when he walked around with his guy hangin out.
As many people said, it is becoming more and more “normal” to be uncircumcised, so hopefully if more parents become cogniscent of the fact that it’s an outdated procedure, this will be less and less of a concern for people. Hopefully someday soon, the poor kids walking around NOT intact will be in the minority and the pendulum will swing the other way. Then all the parents who go along with it just because they don’t want their kids to be “different” will choose the opposite.
It’s so awesome to hear so many people say their pediatricians or family docs advised against it, or gave the “it’s a personal choice, but it’s a medically unnecessary procedure” speech! I think this depends largely on the age of your doc, to be honest. The older generation has been so bombarded with a pro-circ mentality that they tend to stick to it. The younger generation of docs is more informed and less bound to the old social stigmas, thus more likely to support the newer anti-circ philosophy.
My locker room comments were referring to communal showers in high schools, not boys walking around showing it off–I don’t even want to think about that! (Can you tell I grew up with three sisters and no brothers? I even had 13 GIRL first cousins! Who could have ever guessed I would end up with six sons?)
Anyway, I’m curious. You mention your dh never saw his friends naked so it leaves me to wonder if in some parts of the country communal showers in high school locker rooms are a thing of the past? Or maybe it depends on the sports played? My boys played football, soccer, basketball and baseball–so some pretty sweat producing sports most definitely requiring showers.
I do soooo agree that hopefully, by the time my 9 and 5 yo’s get into high school it will be a situation where they will not feel self-conscious about being uncirc. because there will be more uncirc boys in the locker room showers.
So funny- my husband and I were just talking yesterday about how old I was when I got my ears pierced (11th birthday after nagging my parents for a year). This lead to our mutual feelings that ear piercing should be left for the child to decide when older. As far as circumcision is concerned- I never gave it a thought until I met my Dutch husband and moved to Europe! For the most part, it is considered a barbaric practice and rarely done. Years back I asked my husband about it and he looked at me in horror, asking why anyone would consider doing that to their child. If we are blessed with a referral for a son, I couldn’t imagine ever subjecting him to such a procedure.
I’m so glad you posted about these topics! Well done!
Wow! Talk about a passionate post! I’m a surigical assistant. I’ve seen a lot of cases done (and I’m only in the O.R. 5yrs) on uncircumcised men from 25-60 y/o for chronic infection and phimosis. As I stand there, I can’t help but think ‘if only they were circumcised’. As an adult, it has to be completely emmasculating to come to an operating room to have a part of your member removed??
We’re still in the discussion phases. Nice support for your argument and well said! I did see someone else bring up immunizations! Boy, is that a HOT topic amongst parents!
Just had to add a few more thoughts. My dad (Irish) is not circumcized and has had no issues related to being intact. Neither has my husband (German).
I spent almost two months at my baby’s bedside in the NICU listening over and over again to the neonatologists do their best to inform parents that there is no medical evidence to support circumcision–it was clear that while they didn’t come right out and advise against it, that they discouraged the practice as much as possible.
I don’t have time to read all the post or even all the comments but I will this weekend for sure. Circumcision is a huge soapbox issue for me too. You are brave to touch it because I wouldn’t do it nearly as poetically as you did. I do have to say that almost daily I have to woo myself away from the temptation to pierce!!! Having 3 boys first, ugh, it is hard! Haha. But I coudln’t really do it and my husband is opposed which helps. Hell, I can’t even bring myself to get Addison’s ear tags removed for all those reasons you stated! I will move to the ends of the earth just so you can be my kids doctor! It makes me CRAZY how uninformed and just irreponsible doctors can be to tiny boy penises, the ones lucky enough to get into the office still intact! Anyway I love this post of yours and you are brave to write it. I really respect it. Helps that I totally agree with what I’ve read so far, 100%
Thanks for the thought-provoking post! I did have my two biological sons circumsized because I was convinced at the time that it was the more hygenic option. I had both of my sons at military hospitals, and I don’t remember the docs or nurses pushing parents in either direction. My husband is circumsized, but he never really pushed for it because of how his member looked :). We both just thought, based on our research, that it was the “healthier” choice for our sons. That being said, if I were to have another bio son today, I would probably not have them circumsized, mainly because I’m no longer convinced of the medical benefits, and if its just a cosmetic procedure, I’m against it for the same reason that, as a veterinarian, I’m opposed to tail-docking and ear-cropping puppies (or, for that matter, ear-piercing babies). Certainly if we were to adopt a boy, I would definitely not circumsize, for a lot of different reasons. It is a choice we would leave up to our child when they were old enough to make an informed decision.
I really appreciate your viewpoints on subjects like these…and I would also be interested in your thoughts, as a doctor and a mom, on vaccinations.
thanks again!
[...] Aug 2nd, 2007 by sheljena In the spirit of this post over at Pho for Four(which, by the way, is about circumcision and isÂ
I love your blog! I agree whole heartidly. There are no medical reasons why circ should be done unless medically necessary. I think if parents were to watch it being done, they would change their minds!!!
I couldn’t agree more! For us there will be no circumcision if we have a boy in the family down the line… And no earrings for our baby girl, either.
I didn’t see many different view points here, but maybe there’s room for one more.
One of the pediatricians I interviewed before having my son was very opposed to circumcision, but his view points on just about every topic, including vaccines, were very single sided and unbalanced. The reason I didn’t choose that pediatrician is that his fervor for just about any topic was so strong that I could never get an honest, well rounded view of any issue by talking with him. I admire his passion, he was young and was saving the world one baby at a time, but he could not have have given me what I need in a pediatrician because I really couldn’t trust him to help me make a well informed decision.
I have noticed over time that the health care professionals I trust to assist me in making decisions for my family are often mid career people who understand how to advise. While I admire all the passion, it seems that we’ve forgotten that parenting is full of difficult decisions and that we all do the best we can for our kids. My daughter has plagiocephely and my current pediatrician is quite opposed to the doc bands or other treatments unless the case is severe. After explaining his point of view, he also gave me a referral to see specialists, one of them is a doc-band company who would clearly disagree with him. He doesn’t always agree with my decisions (including his proposed acceleration of vaccines for our daughter who is behind because of her adoption), but he is a wealth of information and he respects his patients as parents. And in the end, that’s what makes a good doctor, and a good community of parents - supportive, healthy dialog. If there were clear, unmitigated paths to follow for each health care issue, then we could all read the child raising instructions in a centrally distributed book and we would only need doctors just as we need car mechanics, to fix basic functions when they go wrong. But I think the responsibility of doctors and of each of us to each other is greater than that.
In the end, my son was circumcised (under anesthesia) and my daughter did not get the doc band; each after well informed and thought out decisions. Were they right or wrong decisions? I’m not sure that life is as clear-cut as that. And we are not barbarians any more than parents who don’t circumcise or decide to do a doc band, or to accelerate vaccinations or not allow some vaccinations, or any other choice they make to do what they feel is best for their kids. We are all parents.
I’m whole-heartedly on-board with the no circumcision argument - Having just come home with our little man this was a very timely post, I am ecstatic to see someone who is both an AP and in the medical field really take this issue to heart and take the time to lay out a thoroughly researched argument against the practice… thank you! If anyone were to have been in our shoes the last month - we have had more then our share of hospitals and doctors both in country and even back here in the States - they’d realize that one less unnecessary and traumatic hospital visit is truly what the good doctor ordered!
Knox,
I appreciate your comment. You present several very good points and I respect the choices you’ve made for your kids and the fact that you recongnize parenting is not easy. There is no 1 size fits all for the decisions you make on behalf of your children. I don’t think anyone would argue that, or I certainly would NOT.
About your choice of pediatricians…I like my doctors to be evidence-based, which often (though not always) goes along with more recently trained/younger. That said, I look for doctors with well informed opinions, but who will respect my decisions and allow me the autonomy to make them, even if they’re not always what they would have chosen. I don’t know if you equate me with that young passionate doc you belittled, but this is my blog and where I get to express my opinions, not the manner in which I’d deliver advise to a patient. I would do that more along the lines of evidence based medicine, keeping my own strong opinions in check. Some patients only want informed facts, others want their docs to truly help them make decisions. Either way, I’d begin by informing parents that there is no good evidence to support the practice of circumcision. That the current AAP recommendations state circumcision is a non-therapeutic procedure, and they should realize that at this point, it is done for cosmetic reasons. If they are fine with that and would like to proceed, I would help them find someone they feel comfortable with to circumcise their child. Should they ask for my personal stance, which patients very often do, I would tell them that circumcision is a very personal decision that each parent need to make for his/her child, but personally I would not / have not circumcised my own child because it is not medically indicated.
Believe it or not, I tend to be very non-judgemental when counseling patients, and I do my best to make sure they do not feel pressured into a decision based on my own beliefs. This goes for abortion, circumcision, end of life issues, etc. I save the fact that I believe circumcision is equal to body mutilation for my blog and discussions with my family and friends. Doctors do have opinions. It’s just that the professional ones are good at advising based on medical evidence, not personal beliefs. The pediatrician you found in the end sounds like a great fit for your family. The first one we tried out only wanted to tell us what to do, so I know how that feels. I hated that paternalistic approach and we have since found ourselves a new doc too!
Thanks for your comments Knox. You’re right - I, too, was surprised at how many of the comments were also anti-circ. There is most definitely room for more comments like yours. I think the bottom line is exactly what you said -
“If there were clear, unmitigated paths to follow for each health care issue, then we could all read the child raising instructions in a centrally distributed book and we would only need doctors just as we need car mechanics, to fix basic functions when they go wrong.”
I appreciate your response, and I wasn’t comparing you at all; certainly I don’t know you professionally or personally. I was just referencing my experience, like others here, to their doctors advice. And yes, I am certain no one would ever use words like this to describe their clients while at work, although I’m sure many of us would like to.
Hi, again. Love this post, and I’m so glad I read it tonight - I have an appointment to interview a pediatrician next Thursday, and I’d LOVE some advice about the kinds of questions to ask (I’ve never done this before!). I’ve chosen to meet her because she has extensive experience caring for internationally adopted children; however, I’ve heard she’s “conservative” so I’m not exactly sure what to expect. I want to talk with her about a modified vaccination schedule in particular, and I’m worried I will back down. Any wisdom you can offer would be hugely appreciated!!
This is an old post, but a memorable one. I thought you might be interested in this article. http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/top10/article/0,30583,1686204_1686252_1690372,00.html
I am somewhat connected to this study through work, and it really is amazing the difference this procedure made in HIV infection rates. Of course it was so much more medically traumatic to adult males than babies, but worth it for those who didn’t become infected. We all have to make the choice that is right for our children as educated and concerned parents, but there are certainly still medical implications for this choice.
[...] I never thought my benign posts would generate any offensive comments; I thought those were only warranted on the circumcision, vaccination, gender selection, adoption ethics, and other controversial posts! Oh well. At least my blog was considered to be intelligent once upon a time. I’ll take that as a compliment;) [...]
Hallefuckinlujah…. I never read this post but damn! I’m on board. Proud to say my son is intact and my daughter can choose to pierce her own lobes.
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