12/30: War Stories…
I love the VA. Lots of people hate working there…actually, I think most people do. But each week I look forward to my time at the VASpa, where I listen to war stories, talk to service people, and help them heal (more by just listening to them recount memories and have someone to share those with than by anything else I’m ever able to do for them).
Today I spent time with a vet who served in Vietnam as a special ops assassin. Without violating HIPAA, I’ll just say he’s written books based on his experiences and he shared fascinating stories with me. I can’t even believe half the stuff my ears were hearing, but I know this guy was not confabulating. As I carefully examined the skin on his scalp, he was telling me about leaders he had to hunt during a particular operation when Vietnam soldiers crossed the Cambodian border. My hands made their way across his cheeks, looking for any change in the texture of his skin, as he told me about soldiers crawling through the tunnels, getting bitten by cobras on the nape of the neck because the Viet Cong hung them from the ceilings of the tunnels. It reminded me of our trip to the Tunnels of Cu Chi the 1st time we traveled to SE Asia (2002). My Lord were we young.
[Tunnels of Cu Chi, 2002]
That was when Travis and I had our eyes opened to the atrocities of war, on both ends. We visited the “American War Crimes Museum,” the name of which has been changed to be less offensive to tourists, and I remember sobbing on a park bench while Travis held me for HOURS after we left that museum, where we saw the effects of Agent Orange – fetuses in jars and pictures of the most horrifically malformed babies.
As I examined the skin on my patient’s chest, he explained away several entrance / exit wounds made by shrapnel and bullets. He then told me about small minority groups, hated by the Northern Vietnamese, that he trained, fought with, loved, and tried to airlift, but many were killed after the US troops were evacuated.
Most of all, we talked about my boys when I told him they were from Vietnam, which led him back to some memories of an orphanage he and his men looked after. His special ops team was able to get some of the children out (to Western Cambodia and Eastern Thailand through rice paddies and over land BY FOOT), but when the US started pulling out and it was clear the war was over, the remaining children were killed by the Northern Vietnamese. Hearing that reminded me of Hoi An Orphanage, where Travis and I volunteered in 2002 and were first inspired to adopt, and where we volunteered again while waiting for Shanie’s adoption to be approved. It’s an orphanage with a large number of special needs kids. I imagine many of the kids my patient’s team was no able to save were kids with special needs, or infants, because they could not make the rigorous overland trip.
[Hoi An Orphanage, 2002]
It’s SO hard to hear these stories, and the comments that often follow (he made several comments thanking God I got my boys out of there), but I can’t even imagine living through what this man survived. It hurts me to hear anyone say things like “thank God you saved those children from the hell of a country they came from.” Those who know me are aware that we adopted our children after falling in love with their birth country, and that adoption (of infants!) to us is not about saving children; it’s about building a family. But hearing that from a veteran like this man is not quite the same as hearing it from an ignorant moron off the street. The Vietnam he knows is VERY different from the Vietnam we have been fortunate to know. It still cuts me, and I’m always floored to meet people who still don’t see the Vietnam War as “our country’s mistake,” with the awful tragedy on both ends that resulted. I can’t articulate why it was different or less offensive to hear what I’d consider fighting words if they’d come out of anyone else’s mouth, but I didn’t resent him at all after he said it. I just felt really really bad for him. I thanked him, sincerely, for his service, he thanked me for mine, and we shook hands long and hard. It was another encounter that challenged my emotions, my mind, and left me thinking, long after we’d parted ways. And that is yet another reason I love medicine: the intimate, but challenging human encounters only a doctor-patient relationship can provide.
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13 comments
Nicely said, Laurie. Thanks for sharing with us tonight.
I hated working at the VA, but I obviously worked on the legal side and felt like a horrible person for some of the claims I had to assess. I don’t believe we treat our vets in the manner in which they deserve to be treated. Some of what I saw kept me up at night.
As for your experience, I completely understand what you are saying. I’ve been in that situation several times and just as you said, it’s very different than having that discussion with some random off the street. In fact, I had a nearly identical conversation with a vet who went through similar experiences in Vietnam and who was married to a Vietnamese woman (who he married decades AFTER the war, and she moved to the U.S. less than ten year prior). Mattix was with me that day. Difficult stuff and difficult to know how to process it, let alone how to respond properly. You summed everything up quite well.
In our old house, we lived across the street from an amazing guy(who I miss) he was a Vietnam Vet, and an ex-addict(12 years sober). Just an awesome guys, cussed like a sailor(wait, like someone else I know), The hubster asked him to clean it up around me and the kids, and he really did
Any-who, when we told him we were adopting from Vietnam, he said something very similar, and at the time I didn’t understand… but what you said about “your” vet really puts it in perspective, the Vietnam they knew, was COMPLETELY different than the Vietnam we have come to love…
I often think about the soldiers coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan, and PTSD, and just the HELL that they have lived through, and I think about how we as a country are struggling to care for those who come home, mostly mentally and emotionally and I think about the whole generation who served in Vietnam, and how we didn’t care for them AT ALL… and it breaks my heart. Sorry this is becoming a book(I tend to do this:) But man, when do we learn??? While I am religiously and philosophically opposed to war in general, and the war we are currently fighting in particular, caring for soldiers and their families is something that I think is VERY important, and actually says a LOT about the state of our country…how well we care for the disenfranchised in general
Anywho :0
It’s great you took the time to listen to that guy. Many docs just pass in and out like a brief wind that leaves a script in its wake. I know what you mean about his comments. Somehow, it does make a difference when words like that come from someone who’s “been there, done that”. I have a great friend, More like a brother, who is Vietnamese. He came over when he was 3-5. (they don’t really know how old he was). He had never been back to Vietnam but kept in touch with his parents and family there. He did go back in about 2000 and came back thanking God he lived in America. He was so sad he had to leave his younger brothers and sisters along w/his aging parents in “that place”. (his words, not mine). I had such mixed emotions at that time and they’re even worse now that I have a Vietnamese son. I don’t want to hear how lucky my son is, but I also know what a bubble we live in, that I can’t possibly know the things that go on in other countries, or even in places in our own. Someone like your vet has seen and been through things that allow him to speak those words and they not be hurtful.
What a great post. This reminded me of all the Vietnam solders who helped us when we were camping on the beach of Vung Tau waiting for the American ships to come. When it was time we had to charter a small boat to take us out to them and when we got there grown men were steping on little kids like me to get on but those solder did not allow that. I remembered one reached over and with one finger pulled me up. I see them as my savior and when I got older and heard how they were treated by their own country I was appalled and sad for them. I remembered being hungry on that beach but when we got on the ship food was the first thing they gave us (water down rice soup). I slurped that up real fast and tried to get in line for more. Of course they had to limit us but that didn’t stop me from trying. I saw mounts of gold literal on the floors of the chartered boat that the riches were trying to take with them but had to leave behind. I was almost drowned by one as he used me as a stepping stool to climbed on the charter boat. The only thing I remembered was my mom keep telling me to hang on to her and she will not let me drown. That’s the different between Vietnamese men and US solders. Your boys will grown up with different mentalities. They will learn to care for others and not to do wrong to others to get what they want. Sorry if this sounds bitter but what I see in Vietnam are people ready to step on anyone to get to the top. They are very proud if they can cheat someone out of their fortune. Most of them are that way but not all and it’s the many years of hardship that makes them that way. Ever heard of the phrase no Vietnamese are stupid, if they are they are dead? Many Vietnamese feel they would rather raised the kids in the US not because of the riches but because they want their kids to grow up learning to care for others too and not just for themself. I have absolute respect for those solders and thank you Laurie for taking the time to care for one of them. I know I am the lucky one to have been saved by one of them. I don’t know if my daughter Bella is lucky for having lost her real family but I will make sure she grows up to be a caring loving person that she really is.
What a wonderful post! My dad is a Vietnam vet and he has never talked much about it other than what a surprise it was to come home and be spit on and treated like a second class citizen. It makes me sick to my stomach. I highly recommend ,www.soldiersangels.com. We’ve “adopted” a couple of soldiers and send them care packages and notes/emails. Brad spent his first tour without ever receiving a package and we were given his name on his second tour and he was so grateful for everything we sent. He’s back over for a third tour and we are sending his goodies and things like socks, lip balm, etc that he needs but we (our govt) is not providing. Such a shame.
Anyway, thank you for taking the time to listen to him. I can only imagine how much he appreciated it.
You two are still young but oh my goodness you two look so young in the above pictures. So cute.
This is a very interesting post. I have always thought that you and some of your readers held a very Pollyanna, simplistic view of Vietnam. You know the “Vietnam “that has developed in the last 10-15 years. You know the “Vietnam” that very much wants your tourist dollars. Beautiful. Interesting. Full of wonder and excitement with a touch of calm and serene. How could one not fall in love with that country? Communistic views were sacrificed as soon as they realized what a beautiful country they have and how people from all over the world would actually pay money to experience it.
I grew up knowing a very different Vietnam. Vietnam has always been a war -torn country. If they weren’t at war with the Chinese, it was the French. If not the French it was small wars with neighboring countries. If not warring with neighboring countries, they warred internally- North against the South. Civil War. Vietnam’s history is wrought with agony, pain, poverty, hardships and heartache. This is the Vietnam I grew up knowing. Wonder why that little old lady looks so weather beaten and rustic? It’s not just the poor diet due to poverty. It’s the hard life she’s lived. The people- yes, the people are a wonderful, gracious, generous, forgiving and happy people individually, but they can also be a dishonest, unethical, and a downright mean people collectively. Not out of evil necessarily, but out of a need to survive. It’s a way of life. The cobra story- that’s not even the half of it. My dad tells a story of a Vietcong woman who killed her baby, hollowed it out and planted explosives inside in an attempt to sneak in and blow up a South Vietnamese village. Vietnamese people have seen and taken part in atrocities that we can’t even imagine. It’s a “me” or “you” mentality.
Many people who have adopted Vietnamese children take them to a Tet festival once a year, buy them a moon cake, dress them up in some little outfit, take part in some little Vietnamese ritual, and go to a Vietnamese restaurant every now and then for pho and call it good. Seriously, pho is as plain and boring of a dish that you can get. It would be equivalent to a Vietnamese family adopting and American child and taking them to McDonalds for a burger all the while patting themselves on the back. While there is nothing wrong with exposing your children to such a basic dish, there are so many more dishes that you and your readers don’t even know about. To truly raise your child to know the Vietnamese culture you can’t just dab a little. You have to take the culture and the country for it’s totality. The whole of it. The good and the bad. Without the American “spin” on things too. Basically, you all are raising American children who have a small awareness of the Vietnamese culture. Having said that, I realize that those things are done in love, and it’s truly the best you can do as Americans living here in America.
How do I know all this?
Because I am the daughter of a Vietnamese woman and an American GI. I was born during the height of the Vietnam war. Even surrounded with Vietnamese relatives and raised by a Vietnamese woman, I have only a small sample of the true culture. It’s not all roses and sunshine. That history reflects back into Vietnamese society and ultimately the culture.
I’ll leave you with a little something. About a year ago I jokingly said to my cousin’s husband (full Vietnamese) “Most people in Vietnam are honest aren’t they?” He just laughed and said “No. Why do you think they want to come over here?” His words have stuck with me since.
@Tahna,
I’m sorry to say that my first reaction upon reading this post was exactly like yours. I’m a Vietnamese-American woman and the Vietnam that I know is more like the soldier’s uglier, harder, version. Yes, it’s a beautiful country superficially, but those beautiful rivers and lakes and temples and all those “wonderful, nice people” hide rivers of blood and hate and pain and death.
I hate that I feel grateful when my people’s children are adopted by Americans because my people and its land are too sick to do it. “Thank God they’re not in that hell-ridden country” I often think to myself. I think that unfortunately, only those who grew up in Vietnam or went to war there can ever truly understand it, its culture, and its people.
I’m sorry if I offended anyone with the post, Laurie, especially since this is my first here, but it’s a very personal, and touchy, subject for me and for most Vietnamese.
This is my first post on your blog as well. My husband is Vietnamese and we reside in Canada. We went through the process to adopt from Vietnam around the time that you had your beautiful boys join your family. The program was shut down due to ethical issues and we never got our chance. When I explained to my husband’s parents why the program was shut down they laughed out loud. OF COURSE all of those things happened with some adoptions such as stolen babies and buying babies. To them it was just the way of life and they laughed at my Canadian naivete. One of my husband’s other relatives said that he could easily have set up a “private arrangement” to help get us a child from Vietnam. Shocking…
The whole situation is heart breaking. It was only after that day that y in laws told me stories of their Vietnam. It brings a tear to my eye just to think about it again.
Trully a great post. Love your blog.
I had the same feelings visiting the museum and wriggling through the cu chi tunnels. It’s an experience to see war from the other side. But I have to say that not ONCE in all my time in VN (the majority of it spent in HaNoi) did I receive anything but love. Those people are/were able to move on. It makes me wonder why we hold onto it so tightly?
It’s just different when it comes from a VN Vet. You can see it in their eyes when they thank you & tell you your children are so very lucky to be in America. They feel it in their hearts. I can see the difference & feel the difference….nice post.
SO glad you listened to the vet, regardless of whether you agreed with his views. My father is a D.A.V. (a Marine who served in VN) and I know that part of his process in working through his PTSD diagnosed 25+ years after coming home is simply sharing the stories.
I think as adoptive parents to kids born in VN, our feelings about their birth country are obviously not going to be the same as those who have lived in VN (as nationals) and experienced the hardships first-hand, and obviously not the same as those who fought there (regardless of their current feelings about the country). Our experience is colored by the fact that this is the beautiful country that gave us our beautiful children. My father at first couldn’t fathom why I would be willing to spend months there waiting for my son’s visa. Vietnam was a place to get in, do what you are told you must do, get out and try to forget about it. My love for Vietnam is colored by the fact that I was able to arrive, adopt my son, stay in lovely hotels with all the modern conveniences, shop, dine in fantastic restaurants, tour the gorgeous country from HCMC to the Chinese border, meeting fabulous people who doted on my adorable baby (and gave me tons of welcome parenting advice) and then depart when we obtained his visa. What’s not to love? I certainly suffered no hardships in terms of having to find a way to make a living or provide for or shelter for my family. I was an affluent (comparatively) Westerner in VN for ten weeks. I can certainly understand why someone born and raised in VN has a MUCH different perspective. VN today is not the same country that the war veterans experienced, just as the VN I experienced last year is not the VN many Vietnamese ever get to experience. I think that is why so many Vietnamese people I met told me how “lucky” my son was to be going to America. When I would shake my head and talk about the beauty and culture of Vietnam, they would shake their heads back and say how “hard” life was, and that I should bring him back to visit, but that his life would be better in the US. I still struggle with this. His life is easier here, but “better” is still to be determined.
I was only in VN once with L & T picking up Shane. I am a “peacenik” of the 60’s and Jack, Shane & Fin’s Grandpa. I also “dodged” the draft and marched in 3 huge anti war events in DC in the late 60’s as well as local events including Kent the day after the shootings and the “Peoples Park riots in Beserkly CA. In VN the additude of the VN people seemed more “over” the US/VN war than we are, although they also liked our visit for the revenue. I cannot yet get over the 58,000 lost Americans of my generation and also the 100,000’s of thousands wounded physically and otherwise who continue to suffer. This compares with 3-4 mil lossed lives in VN, Laos and Cambodia from early 60’s to early70’s. I’m grateful it’s over and happy that Jack and Shane will share their lives with T & L and Fin, where ever that may be. Let’s take a different tack for this generation and not have these “small” or big wars all over the globe for them to suffer through, be damaged by and perhaps to die in. In wars, it’s always the good that die young; let them live in peace.
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